Throw out the baby with the bath water
Encyclopedia
Throw out the baby with the bath water is an idiom
atic expression used to suggest an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated when trying to get rid of something bad, or in other words, rejecting the essential along with the inessential.
A slightly different explanation suggests that this flexible catchphrase has to do with discarding the essential while retaining the superfluous because of excessive zeal. In other words, the idiom is applicable not only when it's a matter of throwing out the baby with the bath water, but also when someone might throw out the baby and keep the bath water.
; and this book includes a woodcut illustration showing a woman tossing a baby out with waste water. It is a common catchphrase in German, with examples of its use in work by Martin Luther
, Johannes Kepler
, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
, Otto von Bismarck
, Thomas Mann
and Günter Grass
.
Thomas Carlyle
adapted the concept in an 1849 essay on slavery:
Carlyle is urging his readers to join in the struggle to end slavery, but he also encourages them to be mindful of the need to try to avoid harming the slaves themselves in the process.
Idiom
Idiom is an expression, word, or phrase that has a figurative meaning that is comprehended in regard to a common use of that expression that is separate from the literal meaning or definition of the words of which it is made...
atic expression used to suggest an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated when trying to get rid of something bad, or in other words, rejecting the essential along with the inessential.
A slightly different explanation suggests that this flexible catchphrase has to do with discarding the essential while retaining the superfluous because of excessive zeal. In other words, the idiom is applicable not only when it's a matter of throwing out the baby with the bath water, but also when someone might throw out the baby and keep the bath water.
History
This idiom derives from a German proverb, das Kind mit dem Bade ausschütten. The earliest record of this phrase is in 1512, in Narrenbeschwörung (Appeal to Fools) by Thomas MurnerThomas Murner
Thomas Murner was a German satirist, poet and translator.He was born at Oberehnheim near Strasbourg. In 1490 he entered the Franciscan order, and in 1495 began travelling, studying and then teaching and preaching in Freiburg-im-Breisgau, Paris, Kraków and Strasbourg itself...
; and this book includes a woodcut illustration showing a woman tossing a baby out with waste water. It is a common catchphrase in German, with examples of its use in work by Martin Luther
Martin Luther
Martin Luther was a German priest, professor of theology and iconic figure of the Protestant Reformation. He strongly disputed the claim that freedom from God's punishment for sin could be purchased with money. He confronted indulgence salesman Johann Tetzel with his Ninety-Five Theses in 1517...
, Johannes Kepler
Johannes Kepler
Johannes Kepler was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer. A key figure in the 17th century scientific revolution, he is best known for his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers, based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of Copernican...
, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was a German writer, pictorial artist, biologist, theoretical physicist, and polymath. He is considered the supreme genius of modern German literature. His works span the fields of poetry, drama, prose, philosophy, and science. His Faust has been called the greatest long...
, Otto von Bismarck
Otto von Bismarck
Otto Eduard Leopold, Prince of Bismarck, Duke of Lauenburg , simply known as Otto von Bismarck, was a Prussian-German statesman whose actions unified Germany, made it a major player in world affairs, and created a balance of power that kept Europe at peace after 1871.As Minister President of...
, Thomas Mann
Thomas Mann
Thomas Mann was a German novelist, short story writer, social critic, philanthropist, essayist, and 1929 Nobel Prize laureate, known for his series of highly symbolic and ironic epic novels and novellas, noted for their insight into the psychology of the artist and the intellectual...
and Günter Grass
Günter Grass
Günter Wilhelm Grass is a Nobel Prize-winning German author, poet, playwright, sculptor and artist.He was born in the Free City of Danzig...
.
Thomas Carlyle
Thomas Carlyle
Thomas Carlyle was a Scottish satirical writer, essayist, historian and teacher during the Victorian era.He called economics "the dismal science", wrote articles for the Edinburgh Encyclopedia, and became a controversial social commentator.Coming from a strict Calvinist family, Carlyle was...
adapted the concept in an 1849 essay on slavery:
- "And if true, it is important for us, in reference to this Negro Question and some others. The Germans say, 'you must empty-out the bathing-tub, but not the baby along with it.' Fling-out your dirty water with all zeal, and set it careering down the kennels; but try if you can keep the little child!"
Carlyle is urging his readers to join in the struggle to end slavery, but he also encourages them to be mindful of the need to try to avoid harming the slaves themselves in the process.
Select list of the idiom in use
- Jay Presson AllenJay Presson AllenJay Presson Allen was an American screenwriter, playwright, stage director, television producer and novelist. Known for her withering wit and sometimes-off-color wisecracks, she was one of the few women making a living as a screenwriter at a time when women were a rarity in the profession...
(1922–2006) was an American screenwriterScreenwriterScreenwriters or scriptwriters or scenario writers are people who write/create the short or feature-length screenplays from which mass media such as films, television programs, Comics or video games are based.-Profession:...
. She explained in a 1972 interview with The New York TimesThe New York TimesThe New York Times is an American daily newspaper founded and continuously published in New York City since 1851. The New York Times has won 106 Pulitzer Prizes, the most of any news organization...
:
- "The trick in adapting is not to throw out the baby with the bath water. You can change all kinds of things, but don't muck around with the essence."
- In the article about Josh LymanJosh LymanJoshua "Josh" Lyman is a fictional character played by Bradley Whitford on the television drama The West Wing. For the majority of the series, he was White House Deputy Chief of Staff in the Josiah Bartlet administration...
, a fictional character in the American television series, The West Wing, the PresidentJosiah BartletJosiah Edward "Jed" Bartlet is a fictional character played by Martin Sheen on the television serial drama The West Wing. He is President of the United States for the entire series until the last episode, when his successor is inaugurated...
is cited explaining that Lyman would throw out the baby, the bath water and the bathtub in order to avoid letting the Chief of StaffLeo McGarryLeo Thomas McGarry is a fictional character played by John Spencer on the television serial drama The West Wing. The role earned Spencer the 2002 Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series. McGarry's character, the former United States Secretary of Labor, begins the series as the White...
down.
- In the article about Tenpole TudorTenpole TudorTenpole Tudor are an English punk band fronted by Edward Tudor-Pole. The band has been active intermittently since 1977.-Origins:Tenpole Tudor formed in 1977 when Tudor-Pole met guitarist Bob Kingston , bassist Dick Crippen, and drummer Gary Long...
, a British punk band in the 1970s, the discography mentions a single record,
- "Throwing My Baby Out With The Bath Water" / "Conga Tribe" – (1981, Stiff Records, BUY129) - UK #49
- In the article about Alan KotokAlan KotokAlan Kotok was an American computer scientist known for his work at Digital Equipment Corporation and at the World Wide Web Consortium...
, one sentence explains
- "Mikhail BotvinnikMikhail BotvinnikMikhail Moiseyevich Botvinnik, Ph.D. was a Soviet and Russian International Grandmaster and three-time World Chess Champion. Working as an electrical engineer and computer scientist at the same time, he was one of the very few famous chess players who achieved distinction in another career while...
, three times world chess champion, wrote in his book Computers, Chess and Long-Range Planning that the Kotok–McCarthy program's "rule for rejecting moves was so constituted that the machine threw the baby out with the bath water."
- In the article about Mohs surgeryMohs surgeryMohs surgery, also known as chemosurgery, created by a general surgeon, Dr. Frederic E. Mohs, is microscopically controlled surgery used to treat common types of skin cancer. It is one of the many methods of obtaining complete margin control during removal of a skin cancer using frozen section...
, one sentence explains
- "However, in recent years, a few surgeons attempted to throw the baby out with the bath water by claiming that Mohs surgery is no better than standard excision based on one study."
- In the article about Richard BrautiganRichard BrautiganRichard Gary Brautigan was an American novelist, poet, and short story writer. His work often employs black comedy, parody, and satire. He is best known for his 1967 novel Trout Fishing in America.- Early life :...
, one segment explains
- "When the 1960s ended, he was the baby thrown out with the bath water", said his friend and fellow writer, Thomas McGuaneThomas McGuaneThomas Francis McGuane III is an American author. His work includes ten novels, short fiction and screenplays, as well as three collections of essays devoted to his life in the outdoors.-Early life:...
.
- In the article about Arbitration in the United States, one of the cited references is
- David Sherwyn, Bruce Tracey & Zev Eigen. "In Defense of Mandatory Arbitration of Employment Disputes: Saving the Baby, Tossing out the Bath Water, and Constructing a New Sink in the Process", 2 U. Pa. J. Lab. & Emp. L. 73 (1999); n.b., abbreviated source in this legal citation format is the University of Pennsylvania Journal of Labor and Employment Law, Vol. 2, p. 73.
- In the article about Population viability analysisPopulation viability analysisPopulation viability analysis is a species-specific method of risk assessment frequently used in conservation biology.It is traditionally defined as the process that determines the probability that a population will go extinct within a given number of years.More recently, PVA has been described...
, one of the cited references is
- In the article about RelativismRelativismRelativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration....
, one of the sentences is
- Relativists argue that this is a rhetorical trick, akin to claiming "you can't throw out the bath water without throwing out the baby too": denying absolute truths still leaves relativists free to be utterly and passionately opposed to torture.
- John SimonJohn Simon (critic)John Ivan Simon is an American author and literary, theater, and film critic.-Personal life:Simon was born in Subotica, Bačka, County of Bačka, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, later, known as Yugoslavia . He is of Hungarian descent...
, the theater critic of New York Magazine, reviewed a 1983 play entitled Baby with the BathwaterBaby with the BathwaterBaby with the Bathwater is a play by Christopher Durang about a boy named Daisy, his influences, and his eventual outcome.-Act I:Two parents who are completely unprepared for parenthood bring home their newborn baby. The two cannot seem to name the baby. John thinks the baby is a boy, but Helen...
by Christopher DurangChristopher DurangChristopher Ferdinand Durang is an American playwright known for works of outrageous and often absurd comedy. His work was especially popular in the 1980s.- Life :...
:
- "Theatrically, it may be all right to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but only if one did not first, in the writing, throw out the baby and keep the placenta."
Alternate expressions
The meaning and intent of the English idiomatic expression is sometimes presented in different terms.- Throw out the champagne with the cork
- Empty the baby out with the bath.