Melian dialogue
Encyclopedia
The Melian Dialogue, contained in Thucydides
’ History of the Peloponnesian War
, is an account of the confrontation between the people of Melos, a small island in the southern Aegean Sea, and the Athenians in 416–415 BC. Melos was a neutral island, lying just east of Sparta; the Athenians wanted to conquer the island to intimidate the Spartans. In general, “the Dialogue is formally not about the morality of the eventual execution, but about the Melian response to the Athenians’ first demand, that Melos should submit.”
monitored and recorded events of the Peloponnesian War.
Most likely born in Athens
, he supported the Athenian cause and wanted to help; however, he caught the Plague “sometime between 430 and 427 BC and initially was prevented from joining the war effort. Upon his recovery, he was appointed general and given command of a small squadron of ships.” It was quite exceptional for him to survive such a deadly disease. Thucydides fell out of favour with the Athenians, and was exiled in 424 BC, which allowed him plenty of time to write about the ongoing Peloponnesian War. Thucydides’ high social status
and family wealth granted him the leisure needed to work on writing the History of the Peloponnesian War.
Thucydides writes that the two sides held a meeting where they presented their argument
s for and against the invasion. This was held between "the governing body and the few," not before the people, leading the Athenians to imply that the Melian elite
was afraid that the people might support the Athenian position. Many political philosophers have interpreted the dialogue, as written in the History, as reflecting Thucydides' personal views concerning the attack on Melos, whether or not it accurately reports the specific speeches delivered at the meeting.
of the island
of Melos by Athens
in 416 BC during a brief lull in the Peloponnesian War
. Just after the Battle of Mantinea
in 417 BC, the Athenians moved on the Melians and demanded that they join the Delian League, thus effectively becoming part of their empire. The Melians had always resisted the influence
of the Delian League
, and resisted this invasion as well. D.M Lewis states, “The Dialogue is formally not about the morality of the eventual execution, but about the Melian response to the Athenians’ first demand, that Melos should submit.”(or give in) Thucydides created the Dialogue in order to represent the actual events of the Athenians speaking to the Melians. His use of speeches in The History of the Peloponnesian War allowed readers to understand the way in which Athens created their empire. The Athenians sent the League's fleet to Melos to await the time to attack if Melos did not come to a peaceful agreement to surrender to the Athenian representatives.
The Athenian conquest of Melos was ironic because the Athenians wanted to prove their strength, but got their power by destroying the weakest and most vulnerable communities in the Aegean. It is completely indicative of the principal problem with democracy—the "tyranny of the mob"—that the Athenian assembly would favour such a move, which cannot be said to have been of great strategic benefit.
The Melians argue that they are a neutral city and not an enemy, so Athens has no need to crush them. The Athenians counter that, if they accept the Melians' neutrality and independence, they would look weak: people would think they spared Melos because they were not strong enough to conquer it.
The Melians argue that an invasion will alarm the other neutral Greek states, who will become hostile to Athens for fear of being invaded themselves. The Athenians counter that the Greek states on the mainland are unlikely to act this way. It is the more volatile island states and the subjects they have already conquered that are more likely to take up arms against Athens. In Thucydides’ account, the Melians stated, “If such hazards are taken by you to keep your empire and by your subjects to escape it, we who are still free would show ourselves great cowards and weaklings if we failed to face everything that comes rather than submit to slavery.”
The Melians argue that it would be shameful and cowardly of them to submit without a fight. The Athenians counter that the debate is not about honour but about self-preservation.
The Melians argue that though the Athenians are far stronger, there is still a chance they could win. The Athenians counter that only the strong have a right to indulge in hope; the weak Melians are hopelessly outnumbered.
Another reason for the Melians’ refusal was their confidence in having help from the gods; however, the Athenians feel that the gods are on their side as well. Thucydides stated, “We trust that the gods will give us fortune as good as yours, because we are standing for what is right against what is wrong.” The Athenians counter that gods and men alike respect strength over moral arguments; the strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must.
The Melians insist that their Spartan kin will come to their defence. The Athenians argue that the Spartans have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by coming to the Melians' aid – mere kinship will not motivate them.
The Athenians conclude the argument by saying there is no shame in submitting to a stronger enemy. The Melians do not change their minds and politely dismiss the envoys.
of destroying Melos. One of the arguments in the Melian Dialogue is whether or not the destruction
of Melos was a humanitarian act. The destruction of Melos was not humanitarian, but the preceding discussion with Melos to have them surrender before anyone had to get hurt was humanitarian. A.B. Bosworth represents both points of view. He argues that the Melian Dialogue was not humanitarian at all because of the brutality the Athenians used against Melos. However, he also argues that it could be humanitarian because, "they could only confront them with the reality of their position in the bluntest terms. Harsh their language undoubtedly is, but it has a humanitarian end, to convince the Melian oligarchs of the need to capitulate and save themselves and the commons the horrors of a siege." The Melians were put in quite the predicament: to save themselves and surrender
or have their nation completely destroyed for the sake of independence
.
As for Thucydides’ point of view, it would seem that he may have had a bias
in favour of the Melians because of his exile
from Athens. W. Liebeschuetz argues that the Athenians were “wrong and deluded” because of their lack of morality in Melos’ destruction but also that “the Athenians were also perfectly right that the Melians’ own interest required that they should yield to the Athenians since they had not the strength to resist successfully.” However, D.M. Lewis declares that, “Thucydides, with his strong feeling for the power and glory of Athens, may have seen this differently and regarded the Melians’ heroics as foolish and unrealistic; and the fact that they had been offered a relatively painless alternative might affect his view of the massacre.” Lewis also questioned how much of a reaction Thucydides wanted to get from his readers, based on the cruelty the Athenians showed the Melians. This was because “judgments about the Athenian empire is certainly in large part due to the attention that Thucydides’ Dialogue has focused on it, but the feeling he displays elsewhere about that empire makes it questionable if he intended to produce the revulsion which most readers of the Dialogue feel.” The Melian Dialogue garners a lot more attention in The History of the Peloponnesian War because of Athens’ hostility than Thucydides might have intended.
The main reason the Melians refused to surrender to the Athenians was because of their strong sense of independence. Moreover, they did not want to be regarded as cowards for surrendering so easily and submitting themselves to slavery. Slavery
was the ultimate term of alliance
, which would mean that Melos could no longer take their neutral stand. Alliance meant Melos’ subservience to Athens. Slavery also meant extinction of their community, instead of living as an oligarchy. Citizenship for the men would no longer be an option. To lose that right would mean the loss of a sense of themselves.
Melos, as threatened. Thucydides writes, “Our decision, Athenians, is just the same as it was at first. We are not prepared to give up in a short moment the liberty which our city has enjoyed from its foundation for 700 years.” With this decision, the Athenians now had the excuse they needed to destroy Melos, even though the Melians offered them peace at the end of the Dialogue by saying, “‘We invite you to allow us to be friends of yours and enemies to neither side, to make a treaty which shall be agreeable to both you and us, and so to leave our country.’” The Athenians killed the men and enslaved the women and children, and further, repopulated it as an Athenian colony. Liebeschuetz makes a good point on irony in the Melian Dialogue: "The Athenians look at the present and can see nothing will save Melos. They are right. The Melians look to the future. They are right too. Melos is destroyed. But the very next sentence in the history begins the story of the decline of Athens and the justification of the Melians." This is incredible because both groups, the Melians and Athenians, predicted outcomes that both came to pass at a later time. Overall, Melos was one of the few islands in the Cyclades that stood up for itself despite the negative repercussions.
Thucydides
Thucydides was a Greek historian and author from Alimos. His History of the Peloponnesian War recounts the 5th century BC war between Sparta and Athens to the year 411 BC...
’ History of the Peloponnesian War
History of the Peloponnesian War
The History of the Peloponnesian War is an account of the Peloponnesian War in Ancient Greece, fought between the Peloponnesian League and the Delian League . It was written by Thucydides, an Athenian general who served in the war. It is widely considered a classic and regarded as one of the...
, is an account of the confrontation between the people of Melos, a small island in the southern Aegean Sea, and the Athenians in 416–415 BC. Melos was a neutral island, lying just east of Sparta; the Athenians wanted to conquer the island to intimidate the Spartans. In general, “the Dialogue is formally not about the morality of the eventual execution, but about the Melian response to the Athenians’ first demand, that Melos should submit.”
Thucydides
ThucydidesThucydides
Thucydides was a Greek historian and author from Alimos. His History of the Peloponnesian War recounts the 5th century BC war between Sparta and Athens to the year 411 BC...
monitored and recorded events of the Peloponnesian War.
Most likely born in Athens
Athens
Athens , is the capital and largest city of Greece. Athens dominates the Attica region and is one of the world's oldest cities, as its recorded history spans around 3,400 years. Classical Athens was a powerful city-state...
, he supported the Athenian cause and wanted to help; however, he caught the Plague “sometime between 430 and 427 BC and initially was prevented from joining the war effort. Upon his recovery, he was appointed general and given command of a small squadron of ships.” It was quite exceptional for him to survive such a deadly disease. Thucydides fell out of favour with the Athenians, and was exiled in 424 BC, which allowed him plenty of time to write about the ongoing Peloponnesian War. Thucydides’ high social status
Social status
In sociology or anthropology, social status is the honor or prestige attached to one's position in society . It may also refer to a rank or position that one holds in a group, for example son or daughter, playmate, pupil, etc....
and family wealth granted him the leisure needed to work on writing the History of the Peloponnesian War.
Thucydides writes that the two sides held a meeting where they presented their argument
Argument
In philosophy and logic, an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, or give evidence or reasons for accepting a particular conclusion.Argument may also refer to:-Mathematics and computer science:...
s for and against the invasion. This was held between "the governing body and the few," not before the people, leading the Athenians to imply that the Melian elite
Elite
Elite refers to an exceptional or privileged group that wields considerable power within its sphere of influence...
was afraid that the people might support the Athenian position. Many political philosophers have interpreted the dialogue, as written in the History, as reflecting Thucydides' personal views concerning the attack on Melos, whether or not it accurately reports the specific speeches delivered at the meeting.
Context
The historical background of this portion of the History is the invasionInvasion
An invasion is a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a...
of the island
Island
An island or isle is any piece of sub-continental land that is surrounded by water. Very small islands such as emergent land features on atolls can be called islets, cays or keys. An island in a river or lake may be called an eyot , or holm...
of Melos by Athens
History of Athens
Athens is one of the oldest named cities in the world, having been continuously inhabited for at least 7000 years. Situated in southern Europe, Athens became the leading city of Ancient Greece in the first millennium BCE and its cultural achievements during the 5th century BCE laid the foundations...
in 416 BC during a brief lull in the Peloponnesian War
Peloponnesian War
The Peloponnesian War, 431 to 404 BC, was an ancient Greek war fought by Athens and its empire against the Peloponnesian League led by Sparta. Historians have traditionally divided the war into three phases...
. Just after the Battle of Mantinea
Battle of Mantinea (418 BC)
The Battle of Mantinea of 418 BC was a significant engagement in the Peloponnesian War. Sparta and its allies defeated an army led by Argos and Athens.-Prelude to the battle:...
in 417 BC, the Athenians moved on the Melians and demanded that they join the Delian League, thus effectively becoming part of their empire. The Melians had always resisted the influence
Sphere of influence
In the field of international relations, a sphere of influence is a spatial region or conceptual division over which a state or organization has significant cultural, economic, military or political influence....
of the Delian League
Delian League
The Delian League, founded in circa 477 BC, was an association of Greek city-states, members numbering between 150 to 173, under the leadership of Athens, whose purpose was to continue fighting the Persian Empire after the Greek victory in the Battle of Plataea at the end of the Greco–Persian Wars...
, and resisted this invasion as well. D.M Lewis states, “The Dialogue is formally not about the morality of the eventual execution, but about the Melian response to the Athenians’ first demand, that Melos should submit.”(or give in) Thucydides created the Dialogue in order to represent the actual events of the Athenians speaking to the Melians. His use of speeches in The History of the Peloponnesian War allowed readers to understand the way in which Athens created their empire. The Athenians sent the League's fleet to Melos to await the time to attack if Melos did not come to a peaceful agreement to surrender to the Athenian representatives.
The Athenian conquest of Melos was ironic because the Athenians wanted to prove their strength, but got their power by destroying the weakest and most vulnerable communities in the Aegean. It is completely indicative of the principal problem with democracy—the "tyranny of the mob"—that the Athenian assembly would favour such a move, which cannot be said to have been of great strategic benefit.
Arguments
The Athenians, in a frank and matter-of-fact manner, offer the Melians an ultimatum: surrender and pay tribute to Athens, or be destroyed.The Melians argue that they are a neutral city and not an enemy, so Athens has no need to crush them. The Athenians counter that, if they accept the Melians' neutrality and independence, they would look weak: people would think they spared Melos because they were not strong enough to conquer it.
The Melians argue that an invasion will alarm the other neutral Greek states, who will become hostile to Athens for fear of being invaded themselves. The Athenians counter that the Greek states on the mainland are unlikely to act this way. It is the more volatile island states and the subjects they have already conquered that are more likely to take up arms against Athens. In Thucydides’ account, the Melians stated, “If such hazards are taken by you to keep your empire and by your subjects to escape it, we who are still free would show ourselves great cowards and weaklings if we failed to face everything that comes rather than submit to slavery.”
The Melians argue that it would be shameful and cowardly of them to submit without a fight. The Athenians counter that the debate is not about honour but about self-preservation.
The Melians argue that though the Athenians are far stronger, there is still a chance they could win. The Athenians counter that only the strong have a right to indulge in hope; the weak Melians are hopelessly outnumbered.
Another reason for the Melians’ refusal was their confidence in having help from the gods; however, the Athenians feel that the gods are on their side as well. Thucydides stated, “We trust that the gods will give us fortune as good as yours, because we are standing for what is right against what is wrong.” The Athenians counter that gods and men alike respect strength over moral arguments; the strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must.
The Melians insist that their Spartan kin will come to their defence. The Athenians argue that the Spartans have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by coming to the Melians' aid – mere kinship will not motivate them.
The Athenians conclude the argument by saying there is no shame in submitting to a stronger enemy. The Melians do not change their minds and politely dismiss the envoys.
Analysis
The Melian Dialogue opened up many arguments about the moralityMorality
Morality is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good and bad . A moral code is a system of morality and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code...
of destroying Melos. One of the arguments in the Melian Dialogue is whether or not the destruction
Conquest (military)
Conquest is the act of military subjugation of an enemy by force of arms. One example is the Norman conquest of England, which provided the subjugation of the Kingdom of England and the acquisition of the English crown by William the Conqueror in 1066...
of Melos was a humanitarian act. The destruction of Melos was not humanitarian, but the preceding discussion with Melos to have them surrender before anyone had to get hurt was humanitarian. A.B. Bosworth represents both points of view. He argues that the Melian Dialogue was not humanitarian at all because of the brutality the Athenians used against Melos. However, he also argues that it could be humanitarian because, "they could only confront them with the reality of their position in the bluntest terms. Harsh their language undoubtedly is, but it has a humanitarian end, to convince the Melian oligarchs of the need to capitulate and save themselves and the commons the horrors of a siege." The Melians were put in quite the predicament: to save themselves and surrender
Surrender (military)
Surrender is when soldiers, nations or other combatants stop fighting and eventually become prisoners of war, either as individuals or when ordered to by their officers. A white flag is a common symbol of surrender, as is the gesture of raising one's hands empty and open above one's head.When the...
or have their nation completely destroyed for the sake of independence
Independence
Independence is a condition of a nation, country, or state in which its residents and population, or some portion thereof, exercise self-government, and usually sovereignty, over its territory....
.
As for Thucydides’ point of view, it would seem that he may have had a bias
Bias
Bias is an inclination to present or hold a partial perspective at the expense of alternatives. Bias can come in many forms.-In judgement and decision making:...
in favour of the Melians because of his exile
Exile
Exile means to be away from one's home , while either being explicitly refused permission to return and/or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return...
from Athens. W. Liebeschuetz argues that the Athenians were “wrong and deluded” because of their lack of morality in Melos’ destruction but also that “the Athenians were also perfectly right that the Melians’ own interest required that they should yield to the Athenians since they had not the strength to resist successfully.” However, D.M. Lewis declares that, “Thucydides, with his strong feeling for the power and glory of Athens, may have seen this differently and regarded the Melians’ heroics as foolish and unrealistic; and the fact that they had been offered a relatively painless alternative might affect his view of the massacre.” Lewis also questioned how much of a reaction Thucydides wanted to get from his readers, based on the cruelty the Athenians showed the Melians. This was because “judgments about the Athenian empire is certainly in large part due to the attention that Thucydides’ Dialogue has focused on it, but the feeling he displays elsewhere about that empire makes it questionable if he intended to produce the revulsion which most readers of the Dialogue feel.” The Melian Dialogue garners a lot more attention in The History of the Peloponnesian War because of Athens’ hostility than Thucydides might have intended.
The main reason the Melians refused to surrender to the Athenians was because of their strong sense of independence. Moreover, they did not want to be regarded as cowards for surrendering so easily and submitting themselves to slavery. Slavery
Slavery
Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation...
was the ultimate term of alliance
Alliance
An alliance is an agreement or friendship between two or more parties, made in order to advance common goals and to secure common interests.See also military alliance and business alliance.-International relations:...
, which would mean that Melos could no longer take their neutral stand. Alliance meant Melos’ subservience to Athens. Slavery also meant extinction of their community, instead of living as an oligarchy. Citizenship for the men would no longer be an option. To lose that right would mean the loss of a sense of themselves.
Results
Ultimately, Melos refused to surrender to the Athenians. The Athenians immediately besiegedSiege
A siege is a military blockade of a city or fortress with the intent of conquering by attrition or assault. The term derives from sedere, Latin for "to sit". Generally speaking, siege warfare is a form of constant, low intensity conflict characterized by one party holding a strong, static...
Melos, as threatened. Thucydides writes, “Our decision, Athenians, is just the same as it was at first. We are not prepared to give up in a short moment the liberty which our city has enjoyed from its foundation for 700 years.” With this decision, the Athenians now had the excuse they needed to destroy Melos, even though the Melians offered them peace at the end of the Dialogue by saying, “‘We invite you to allow us to be friends of yours and enemies to neither side, to make a treaty which shall be agreeable to both you and us, and so to leave our country.’” The Athenians killed the men and enslaved the women and children, and further, repopulated it as an Athenian colony. Liebeschuetz makes a good point on irony in the Melian Dialogue: "The Athenians look at the present and can see nothing will save Melos. They are right. The Melians look to the future. They are right too. Melos is destroyed. But the very next sentence in the history begins the story of the decline of Athens and the justification of the Melians." This is incredible because both groups, the Melians and Athenians, predicted outcomes that both came to pass at a later time. Overall, Melos was one of the few islands in the Cyclades that stood up for itself despite the negative repercussions.