Who are the true descendants of Jacob?

Are they the Black Hebrew Israelites of the Americas? Or are they the Jews of Europe? Or are the true descendants of Jacob not yet revealed?
Black Hebrew Israelites (BHIs) claim the verses or signs found in the Bible, Leviticus chapter 26, and Deuteronomy chapter 28 along with other Scripture prove that the black people of the Americas are the true descendants of Jacob, (slavery, then social rejection).
The problem I have with this is, the (curses) of Lv 26 and De 28, also not only fit the Jews of Europe (Ashkenazim), but in some verses, these Bible verses fit the Jews better. However this does not rule out that the blacks of the Americas are not the real thing, they just have not yet offered anything that proves it, without any doubt. This is why I consider that there may be a group still hidden by the Most High that are the real Hebrew Israelites, the “proof” offered by the BHIs is very inconclusive, and only causes a standoff between BHIs and Jews. As usual Bible prophecy is not recognizable until it came, did it, and went. These curses and signs are identifying two completely different people, as Hebrew Israelites. Something doesn’t seem right.

What do you think?

Pappybill

Reading through Lev 26 and Deu 28, where do you see reference to Black Hebrew Israelites?

The sons of Jacob were taken into bondage in Egypt, when the new Pharoah didn't recall (or care about) the promise of the Pharoah who placed Joseph (Jacob's son) in charge of his kingdom. The Hebrews remained there for over 400 years. Their faith did not lend itself to marrying outside their tribe (in the vast majority of cases)... Jacob draws his ethnic background from Isaac and Abraham. Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees (Iraq)...

When Noah's sons (Jephath, Ham, and Shem) went their ways - Jephath went to the north and west (Europe and the north Mediterranean), Ham went south (Africa), and Shem stayed in the Middle East and drifted somewhat East of there (traditionally Hebrew)...

Abraham was Shem's decendant. Abraham's surrogate son (Ishmael) was father of the Shemmites who later embraced Islam.

Ham would be the best candidate for African lineage, but this all predates "Israel"... So, how do Black Hebrew Israelites (BHI) fit into this???

Yoda 55


The Israelites had no Torah while they were in bondage in Egypt; they probably did a considerable amount of mixing to get their numbers up for the exodus. The racial purity. is part of the Jewish tradition, thunk up by Rabbis (Jewish intellectuals, ya gotta luv em). However it’s not in the Torah.
There was also a considerable amount of mixing in Israel (Canaan):
Gen 38:14, Jewda
Gen 38:14, 38:29,
Gen 38:2
Gen 46:10, Ex 6:15 sons of Simeon
Judges 3:5, and many many other instances were the Patriarchs or sons took Canaanite brides (the Canaanites are black people).
If the ancient Israelites weren’t very black when they left Egypt they should of been fairly black when they left Israel in 70 CE, therefore the term Black Hebrew Israelites (BHIs).
The purpose of this page is to determine who are the descendants of the ancient Israelites, because BHIs have made such a fuss about it. So, are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, black descendants of slaves in the Americas, or the white Jews of Europe?
BHIs interpret the verses of Lv 26 and De 28 as only fitting the blacks of the Americas, and not the Jews of Europe. Especially De 28:68, in which Moses told the Israelites at Mt Sinai, that the Most High will send them back to Egypt in ships if they didn’t behave and obey the Law. That seems clear and very specific, I don’t know how BHIs do it, but they claim that means slaves in ships to the Americas, therefore anyone who arrived in the Americas in slave ships are descendants of the original Israelites, and anyone else is excluded, and there are more than 200,000 of them that believe it.
If you think about it a little, the Nazis fulfilled most of what BHIs call “curses” on the Jews during WW2. See the confusion?

PB

A question I would like to ask, a Black Hebrew Israelite or a Jew is:
What makes you think that you, yours and your descendants are any more able to keep the Mosaic Law than your ancestors?
What is it about the new Law that is written on our hearts, that you don’t like?
The new Law that is Divinely put into some of us is:
Luke 10:27, Jer 31:33, Heb 10:16; love Yahuah with all your heart, that means believe Yahuah (the Scripture, if you love the Scripture you love Yahuah), and agape (do what is just, right, and honorable, within reason) your neighbor (a person who is close to you but not a blood relation or close friend). Be at peace with all men as far as it is up to you.
There was a time when men couldn’t number the stars in the sky, now they are unable to number the galaxies in the sky. So what does the Creator of all that require of men? Simply, do unto others, as you would like others to do unto you. If anyone thinks that’s too simple, for such a complex Creator then not anyone is able to believe God.

PB

For the whole who are the true children of Israel lol. Accorfing to the Curses of the Book of Deuteronomy ,the nation of Israel and their descendants would be enslaved, looked at as a mockery amongst the world, spread out among many nations of the earth etc. Also We can go to the New Testament with the Messiah who spoke in Revelation 2:9 " I know thy works and tribulation and poverty (but thou art rich), and I know the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." and in Revelation 3:9 " I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." And it's interesting that it went from Hebrews to "Jews" . lol The so called "African Americans" are the true children of Israel and yes are the natural seed of Abraham . Also you can read Genesis 15:12-13 " As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there."

Noah's Sons , Japheth, Ham, Shem. Ashkenazim is a descendant of Japheth (Genesis 10), However Abraham who is the descendant of Shem, is the Father of the Hebrew nation. So how can the Ashkenazim Jews be from Abraham , according to bloodline that's scripturally incorrect

Moshey24

When the Romans got done beating up Israel in A.D. 70 they pulled 90,000 Israelites out of Israel. Some went to Egypt and Libya and others to the provinces like England, France and all the rest. (Egypt by ship??) And since West Africa and Ethiopia are a hop skip and a flip away from Egypt, then there to.
Those who went to Rome and over the Caucasus and all over Europe mixed with Japheth and took on the personal appearance of Europeans, and those who migrated to West Africa and Ethiopia took on the personal appearance of Africans.
Neither “black” Americans nor Jews fit the personal appearance of the ancient Israelites.
The proof I can offer is in Numbers 13&14. When Moses sent spies into Canaan, and they returned, they were very afraid, reporting that the Canaanites (black people) were a large and ferocious looking people. They would not of said this if they themselves were a large and ferocious looking people. Black Americans don’t fit the appearance of the ancient Israelites you can observe their street corner preachers on You Tube bullying Jews and whites, (large and ferocious looking), and the Jews are too white to fit the personal appearance of ancient Shem. So you can’t judge a book by its cover. To answer your question of how can Ashkenazi produce Semites, the Israelites went into all the peoples of the Earth. It might be better to refer to Jews as White Hebrew Israelites.
Some of your questions might be better answered by reading “Proof of the existence of God” elsewhere on this site. You will better see the role each of us play in this great work of Yahweh.

PappyBill

Moshey24:

You have raised a couple of very good points; I’ll try to nail them for you.
In Gen 15: 12-13, the Creator spoke to Abraham long before the nation of Israel was established, and this prophesy was fulfilled in Egypt. The Scripture does not say that Gen 15:12-13 will occur more than once, especially after the coming of Messiah. It also makes no sense for the Creator to impart this to Abraham and say nothing of the Israelite history for the 3,000 years between the Exodus and now.
As for the 400 years of oppression, you are a bit premature. It should of taken at least a century or so for the Americas to be explored and settled and land rights established. Slaves arriving in mass should have been after early 1700’s, so what your are looking for should occur in the 2100’s, if you are correct in your beliefs.
The social rejection and abuse is not common only in the Americas, it is universal all over the world even in Africa.
The initial question was:
What makes you think you can abide by the Mosaic Law any better than your ancestors?
Especially when times get good.

PB

Well slave ships came to America in the 1600's ,1619 I believ is the first ship. SO that 2100's theory is false. and no other nationality is made more of a mockery , more rejected than "African Americans" And. The prophecy told to Abraham in Deuteronomy also says " I will send you BACK to EGYPT in ships" ( paraphrasing), So we all know that the word Egypt means Bondage, So wen the Hebrews were brought here in America, they were in placed in Bondage again. The entire Bible is the Israelite history. And as far as Keeping the Law, Well its simple you have grow in your Spirit everyday and meditate daily on the Law, My ancestors didn't do that smh

What is this " New" Law , The Messiah said Matthew 5:17-18

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You are correct that the summarization of the Law is Love, Love for God and Love for Humanity

Moshey24

Matthew 5:17, Messiah came and fulfilled the Law, and all that is required by the Law. The only man who ever fulfilled the Law.

Each person must be what we call “born again” to see the Kingdom of God.

Jeremiah 31:33, the Law (new Law) is written in the hearts of the born again.

Hebrews 10:16, the Law (new Law) is written in the hearts of the elect.

Luke 10:27, the requirements of the new Law:
Love the Creator, that means love the truth (the Scripture) and agape, your neighbor as yourself (golden rule) do to others, that which you want others to do to you.

“Love for God and love for humanity”??
I didn’t say that we should have love for humanity. Why would we love what our Father has condemned? Humanity is inherently evil. If we are truly “born again” we will have a natural and strong desire to do the right thing at all times (the mind of Christ). We will lead by example, (within reason), and show we are a “peculiar people.” Doing unto others as we would have others do unto us, is the new Law written in our hearts.

PB

Deuteronomy 28:68 (I will send you back to Egypt in ships), wasn’t given to Abraham, it was given to the Israelites by Moses after the Exodus, and before the Israelites entered the land of Canaan, along with the rest of the Mosaic Law and the curses.
De 28:68 is quite clear and very specific. It does not say that at some time in the distant future (3,000years) I will send you to a land far away that you never heard of, in slave ships, and you will be there 400 years.

The social rejection and abuse you speak of is international, due to the concept many have that “blacks” are beggars, borrowers, moochers, thieves, liars, cheats, killers, assailants, and in general, irresponsible. According to BHI philosophy this is punishment for sin (violation of the Mosaic Law). If you are a descendant of Abraham, then that is why you are enjoying the curses.
You may better understand the roles each of the colors of man plays by going to “Proof of the existence of God” elsewhere on this website.

Moshey24, you didn’t explain why the personal appearance of neither Jews, nor “blacks” in the Americas isn’t the same as the Biblical description of the Israelites in Numbers 13&14. Also I’ve often wondered why some BHI’s can accept any minority as Hebrews, but not whites. (Jews).

PB