Christianity
Eastern Ortodox Church
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amose1550bce
I find the Eastern Orthodox Church more attractive than Western Christianity. It is more mystical more forgiving then its' Western counterparts. I find that the Western Churches to be too dogmatic and rigid. From what I understand there is not eternal damnation since Christs' love and mercy are infinite. They believe that hell is seperation from Christ. If anyone could shed more light on this,I would be thankful
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replied to:  amose1550bce
silverglass
Replied to:  I find the Eastern Orthodox Church more attractive than Western Christianity....
Jesus had many things to say about this and it it clear from the gospels that hell is a real place. Where would you like to begin your search on this? Do you have a concordance? If you do look up the word hell in the new testament and you will find more than enough to convince you that hell is a real place and we should strive to avoid going there.
Finally, the theme of hell in the new testament carries a warning that we need to be reconciled to god for the wrath of god will be upon all those who do not obey the gospel.

Psalm 7:10-12 (King James Version)

10My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.
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replied to:  silverglass
sqeeks152
Replied to:  Jesus had many things to say about this and it it...
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.
There is no hell because a God who is love wouldn't do that. But I don't like the Church's persecution of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, mite have do suomething bout that if they dont fix thereself with the swiftness.
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amose1550bce
Replied to:  (Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die;...
I had a dream that I was in a Eastern Orthodox Church but the congregation was worshiping in the manner of fundamentalist evangelicals. Their voices were harsh and in stark contrast to the sacred icons. I remember looking up and I saw angels standing and singing to Christ. I was uplifted and transfixed and the harsh clamor abated. I felt that I was in the presence of these angels and together with them in His adoration. Such sweet music to fill the harsh void. Surely swords are made into pruning hooks and in Christs' abode I will live forever.
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replied to:  amose1550bce
silverglass
Replied to:  I find the Eastern Orthodox Church more attractive than Western Christianity....
The Narrow Door

22Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'

26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'

27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Revelation 21:8 (New International Version)

8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
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replied to:  amose1550bce
silverglass
Replied to:  I had a dream that I was in a Eastern Orthodox...
Do you underststand the meaning of the second death my friend or are you so immersed in your doctrine as to not see the truth of the gospel?
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replied to:  silverglass
Explorer72
Replied to:  Do you underststand the meaning of the second death my friend...
The pot calling the kettle black, I see.
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replied to:  Explorer72
silverglass
Replied to:  The pot calling the kettle black, I see.
Yes of course you are right! I am westernized in my theology. But why vilify my theology if it endeavors to know the meaning of what the biblical texts are saying. I am guessing that being immersed in doctrine is somewhat of a problem for you. Not for me as I seek to know what the original autographs are witnessing to in truth. Only by comparing text with text can we arrive at the meaning these truths. Conversely only by misrepresenting the textual comparison, that is by pulling a text out of context do we err in arriving at the meaning of a text. In this case misrepresenting God as all loving leaves out a large part of what the original writers were trying to tell us. That is that God is in fact a loving God but that He will also judge the world.
John 5:28-30 (King James Version)

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
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replied to:  silverglass
Explorer72
Replied to:  Yes of course you are right! I am westernized in...
Yes, I do have a problem being immersed in doctrine. And it sometimes gets the better of me, reflecting on my manners. My apologies, Silverglass. My mother raised me to be polite towards others. The whole issue of the Church and Faith is somewhat of a hot button topic for me. As I suppose it is for many others, on both sides of the fence.

I grew up with the Eastern Orthodox Church (I am Greek on both sides of my family). I agree completely with your notion of comparing text by text to arrive at Truth. There is nothing more important than Truth, and that is the best way to approach it. I admire your approach, and am in complete agreement with you also about endeavoring to understand what the biblical texts actually say. A lot of others DON'T question, and that is partly my problem with them. Because there IS misrepresentation. But I would approach it more from an archaeological and historical perspective, rather than a faith based one. But if they both lead to the Truth, what does it matter?

I am always looking for rational, intelligent discourses on History and Science. It has been so long since I had any about Religion that I tend not to realize that it is possible to have meaningful discussions on the topic with the right people. It's a pleasure.

Tony
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replied to:  Explorer72
silverglass
Replied to:  Yes, I do have a problem being immersed in doctrine. And...
Hey Tony, Thanks for your thoughts on what you are obviously passionate about. I am also a passionate guy and sometimes I let it get the better of me when I respond in debating about what I believe in. I must keep in mind that this forum , or any forum for that matter, allows a large degree of anonymity which can easily license harsh or critical replies without penalty. So I will redouble my efforts to be more sympathetic in my responses.
You say you are Eastern Orthodox by birth and I find this very interesting in that the Eastern Church contains a very rich bank of Christian tradition that goes back early in church history. I have a great appreciation of the historical development of its theism and it contribution of certain manuscripts which contribute to the diversity of interpretation of the original manuscripts. I also am fascinated how this has led certain early church fathers to lead the way in various schools of thought concerning the life and practice of early Christianity. I am particularly interested in getting back to the original intent of the early church and this I believe can be done only by going back as far as possible to those who were nearer to the early church.
It seems to me that what the early church had to say is more likely to be understood by those who were nearer to them and so I have been studying the development of later western traditions to better understand what I believe. These later traditions from Augustine down have had a greater influence on what many of us today believe. Much of what the Ante-Nicene Fathers had to say has been lost in the development of the Reformed Augustine tradition and this has led to the diversity we now see in the myriads of churches.
Anyway if you are interested in this stuff I am of a particular theism that looks back to see how these tradition have tended to reinterpret the early churches theism in regards to how we view the bible.
Later , Mike
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replied to:  silverglass
Explorer72
Replied to:  Hey Tony, Thanks for your thoughts on what you are obviously...
Hey, Mike!

I find the history of the early Church fascinating!

I absolutely agree that later traditions from Augustine down have a much bigger impact on what people believe today than the earlier schools of thought.

I am very interested in this subject and am always looking to acquire more knowledge in addition to what I have already learned. Its an endlessly rewarding learning experience. These topics are rich, complex, and multilayered, and branch off in so many directions and lead down many historical and theological avenues.

Unfortunately, sometimes seeking the truth is not always easy, because we must remember that we may come across biased or prejudiced documents reflecting vested interests of certain periods. Interests that may not be obvious because they ceased to exist centuries ago. In addition, much has been lost through the agencies of war, looting, natural disasters or simply Time. We have to keep in mind that we may not be getting the whole story. It is one of the great tragedies of Mankind that so much of his history has been lost.

Having said that, I do believe there is more than enough material surviving today that will allow us to draw intelligent, well informed conclusions when attempting to get back to the original intent of the early Church.

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replied to:  Explorer72
silverglass
Replied to:  Hey, Mike! I find the history of the early Church...
Hey, Tony

Tony, My background research has incorporated the theism of some very influential philosophers. These are a brand of metaphysicians who are grounded in the bible and most are evangelicals. One of these thinkers is W.L. Craig. If you are not already familiar with William Lane Craig you can visit his site. See> ReasonableFaith.com. This site offers some insightful video/audio posts which have inspired me to pursue the reasons why I believe what I believe. Check out the audio video section on “Closer to Truth - Interviews by Robert Lawrence Kuhn “ . It is here that you will find some of the greatest minds on the planet that delve into metaphysical ideas that are pertinent to our understanding of God. In particular, but not limited to, check out a theist who is a analytic philosopher. His name is Richard Swinburne. He has some interesting things to say. He has dedicated several decades of his life as an apologist in debating important atheists in arguing God by design.
Let me know what your take is on this particular site.
Later Mike
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