Bolter1224
From: bolter1224
Date: Dec-23
Possible E-Mail to Jean Pierre' Houdin.
Dear Sir,
My name is Kurt, and I live in the United States. I saw your Documentary, "Unlocking The Great Pyramid", and I would like to propose if I may, that the stones that were used in the construction of, "The Great Pyramid" on Giza Plateau were rolled into position. Not Dragged.
I think The Ancient Egyptians did this by using eight or more separate quarter-moon shaped, 90 degree circle wood fittings that were mounted one on each side of a massive stone, and again on both ends. It would've been like putting a square peg in a round hole. It probably would've also had a wooden dowel running the length of the stone connecting the two slats one on each side of the stone horizontally.
This would allow the stones to be rolled up the incline, and not have to be dragged into position as previously suggested. I think this would explain why continuing up the inside of the enclosed structure of, "The Great Pyramid" every two, or three minutes a stone could be fitted into place on the inner, and outer walls of the pyramid.
On the other hand, I think dragging the stones would've required way too long of a line for workers pulling the stones in a straight line up the incline shaft making it an impractical construction method. I would also like to say, "I think the small niche on the corner of, "The Great Pyramid" structure that was discussed in the last part of your Documentary may have been small, seemingly uneventful, and puzzling at first because it was used only for safely turning the large blocks sideways. Not for a machine to reposition the stones".
I think that rolling the stones into place would've required far less labor for the workers making shorter lines in the inline ramp enclosure. I also would like to say that, "I think for this reason it may have been why, "The Grand Gallery" might have been necessary for raising the 50 ton granite stone columns that were used in the construction of the ceiling in, "The King's Burial Chamber". I also imagine that rolling the stones on these devices would've greatly reduced the amount of friction on the ropes, and pulleys in the process you've described using "The Grand Gallery Inclosure" for moving these huge blocks.
It also may have been feasible to use workers to roll the granite stones up the south-side ramp, but the line of workers pulling, and rolling the stones into place would probably have fallen of the north side of the pyramid trying to roll the massive stone blocks in place using the south-side ramp.
I think another reason the architects of, "The Great Pyramid At Giza" may have used, "The Grand Gallery" for lifting is because the 12-50 ton stones that were used to build the ceiling in, "The Kings Burial Chamber" were far too long to fit sideways up an internal ramp on a quarter-moon wooden slat that was displayed in a DVD on how the pyramids were built in a documentary for building the great pyramids that I checked out at my local library. It was a documentary meant for high school students grades 9 thru 12.
If this catches your eye, the name of the documentary is, "Building The Great Pyramid" narrated by Omar Sherif. You can find this DVD on Amazon.com. That is, if you haven't seen it already. Although if you haven't seen it, and you would like to, the person who showed this device in the DVD said that it was, "found in one of the ancient burial tombs of one of the workers who helped build "The Great Pyramid of Khufu At Giza".
The man in the video also demonstrated how the large stones were rolled up the ramps used to build, "The Great Pyramid" using only these devices, large ropes, and a handful of workers for each block. I thought this might be interesting for you.
As far as outer casing goes, I think they would've started at the bottom of the pyramid lining the outside row of stone blocks with the white casing stones completely around the pyramid. Then working their way up with the construction of the pyramid all the way to the top they would've then sheered the stones off from top to bottom. No machines necessary.
I think, "The Sled" that was found from that period might have been for the cap stone.
The video demonstrates how if guided right, the ropes that were used to rotate the stones into place wouldn't have bound together stopping the stones from rolling.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003262069605&sk=wall
Jean-Pierre Houdin's Response:
Hi Kurt,
Sorry for the delay answering but I was travelling (by the way, I'm right now in New York and will be back to Paris on Monday).
That said, thank you for writing.
About the way the blocks were transported from the quarries to the building site...we have plenty of documents (carvings, and drawings) from the era which shows blocks being carried on sledges and you can see a 10t carrying capacity sledge at the Cairo Museum.
You could not imagine how these sledges were usefull and were really the ancestors of our main logistic system: the pallets !
And in fact, the construction of a pyramid was more a program management and logistic problem than a "magic device" one. Egyptians were absolutely amazing...
I know very well the idea of block being rolled with "a wheel" made of 4 or 8 parts tied together around this block...That has nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. And the construction of a pyramid is not linked to one "magic device"...It is the result of many processes adapted to each tasks. And the biggest problem which kills instantly this idea is that you don't have 2 blocks the same size...they are all different !!!! so your wheel doesn't fit at all.
If you can trust me (and my 12 full years studying the pyramid construction enigma), you will forget quickly the "wheel"...
Now, the "Unlocking the Great Pyramid" documentary was filmed in 2008, as well as 2 other documentaries, one for a french TV (links below) and one for NHK Japan and many things were updated since, thanks to the discovery of the room behind the notch by Dr Bob Brier. (you will see the sledge at the Cairo Museum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpR7AKKN87E&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4t4qHOeilo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwohIUxals&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5j058avZg&feature=related
The french documentary shows that we had, with my partner Dassault Systèmes, made some simulation about the room discovered by Bob (which are not in the NatGeo doc), but ends just short of new updates.
You have to think that at half the height of any pyramid, you have 85% of the volume already set in place, but you still have the second half to built for only 15%. Up to half the height, the external ramp is the process and, for the remaing, the internal ramp takes on the relay . For the upper levels, blocks are much smaller and don't require lots of haulers (16 at the most). Cherry on the cake: after the dismantling of the external ramp, its materials are recycled to build the upper part, being hauled through the internal ramp. No other theory permits that which can be summarized in 2 words : NO WASTE...
Now, about the notches:
I always thought that if Egyptians were building "from the inside", they should had respected this idea from bottom to top.
But I'd no clues about the ability by Egyptians to deal with a corbelled tunnel making a 90° turn inside a stone mass.
Corbelling is easy for straight galleries, but not well suited for a 90° turn...
Bob Brier's discovery of the room was a "flash light" in my brain !
To avoid the 90° difficulty, I understood that Egyptian had a smart solution: insert a "room" inside the mass in which a first gallery (the landing one) will enter in the plane side (gable) and the second one (the leaving gallery) will start from the lower part of a wall continuing higher with a corbelling. That's it !
So from the simulation (and my imagination), I updated this part of the theory (shape of the internal ramp and notches), finding what is a more efficient solution, simplier and more logical:
- the internal ramp is now a 2 levels one, with the lower level for the hauling of the sledges and the upper one for the return of the haulers. Thus, there is no more need for an external gangway
(we have clues of a 2 levels gallerie in the Meïdum Pyramid built long before Khufu's pyramid)
- Notches are no longer usefull as everything is done inside a room which is cut in 2 level, with a wooden floor, during the construction of the pyramid.
At the end of the construction, the wooden floor in each room is dismantled and a reinforcement with stone blocks is made, cutting forever this room in 2 parts; Bob Brier went in the lower part of one of these rooms.
Strangely, the lower room is roughly "vault roofed" with a keystone like block on top (see picture), a proof that Ancient Egyptians had some knowledge about some other kind of roofing than the corbelling. There was no reason to find a room at around 10 meters inside the original edge of the pyramid...Absolutely not an accident of construction, but an intention from the architects and engineers of Khufu's era...
The big result : The facing is totally done while the pyramid rises. End of the story...
So, about my theory, you will find that lots of things were updated and new others were revealed on January 27-2011.
The inside architecture of the Great Pyramid is more complex than what is already known. I presume that there are 2 more rooms (2 antechambers) in addition to the 2 rooms already known in the center part of the pyramid. More, there is another room below the rafters above the descending corridor. This one was part of a set of 2 rooms linking the true entrance to the Queen's Chamber and Kufu's funeral apartments (KC + 2 antechambers).
I join below many links which will be usefull for you to be updated on my work
If you have a recent PC with a very good graphic and video card, all the details are in 3D real time animation, with guided tour or free visit.
The website is right now in french and english, but 10 other languages will be available in a few weeks, among these...japanese...and chinese
www.3ds.com/khufu (you will also find a Pdf file about the clues)
You just have to follow the Guided tour done by Shemsu Sesen on Em Hotep! :
http://emhotep.net/2011/07/14/locations/lower-egypt/giza-plateau-lower-egypt/khufu-reborn-interactive-the-guided-tour/
On this same blog
http://emhotep.net/
you will find many articles on the main frame and on the right side
Featured Series : Khufu Project is about what I call Episode 1, so about what you saw in the documentary.
Exclusive: Marc Chartier is about Khufu Reborn, the updated theory and the new revelation from January.
If you are looking for contemporary examples of building "Inside-out", look at this short video filmed by my wife in Cairo...
http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x14r38_mchartier_pyramidales#videoId=xam65x
And about the "pyramids" made of bales of rice straw...at the Société Nationale du Papier at Aboukir near Alexandria.
I join a text written in 1944 and published in the JEA...Very informative...I discovered this text in February 2008.
You have some lecture and links...Don't hesitate to ask for more
I wish you an Happy New Year 2012
Cheers
Jean-Pierre Premier de la classe émoticône
From: Celeste and Kurt
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:37 PM
To: jphoudin@construire-la-grande-pyramide.fr
Subject: Rolling Stones Into Place, by Kurt Burnum USA 12/19/11
Dear Sir,
My name is Kurt Burnum, and I live in the United States. I saw your Documentary, "Unlocking The Great Pyramid", and I would like to propose if I may, that the stones that were used in the construction of, "The Great Pyramid" on Giza Plateau were rolled into position. Not Dragged.
I think The Ancient Egyptians did this by using eight or more separate quarter-moon shaped, 90 degree circle wood fittings that were mounted on each side of a massive stone, and again on both ends. Sort of like putting a square peg in a round hole. This would allow the stones to roll up the incline, and not have to be dragged into position as previously suggested. I think this would explain why continuing up the inside of the enclosed structure of, "The Great Pyramid" every two, or three minutes a stone could be fitted into place on the inner, and outer walls of the pyramid.
On the other hand, I think dragging the stones would've required way too long of a line for workers pulling the stones in a straight line up the incline shaft making it an impractical construction method. I would also like to say, "I think the small niche on the corner of, "The Great Pyramid" structure that was discussed in the last part of your Documentary may have been small, seemingly uneventful, and puzzling at first because it was used only for safely turning the large blocks sideways. Not for a machine to reposition the stones".
I think that rolling the stones into place would've required far less labor for the workers making shorter lines in the inline ramp enclosure. I also would like to say that, "I think for this reason it may have been why, "The Grand Gallery" might have been necessary for raising the 50 ton granite stone columns that were used in the construction of the ceiling in, "The King's Burial Chamber". I also imagine that rolling the stones on these devices would've greatly reduced the amount of friction on the ropes, and pulleys in the process you've described using "The Grand Gallery Inclosure" for moving these huge blocks.
It also may have been feasible to use workers to roll the granite stones up the ramp, but the line of workers pulling, and rolling the stones into place would probably have fallen of the north side of the pyramid trying to roll the massive stone blocks in place using the south-side ramp.
I think another reason the architects of, "The Great Pyramid At Giza" may have used, "The Grand Gallery" for lifting is because the 12-50 ton stones that were used to build the ceiling in, "The Kings Burial Chamber" were far too long to fit sideways up an internal ramp on a quarter-moon wooden slat that was displayed in a DVD on how the pyramids were built in a documentary for building the great pyramids that I checked out at my local library. It was a documentary meant for high school students grades 9 thru 12.
If this catches your eye, I would gladly find out the name of the author, and title of the DVD that it was described in so you can see it for yourself. That is, if you haven't seen it already. Although if you haven't seen it, and you would like to, the person who showed this device in the DVD said that it was, "found in one of the ancient burial tombs of one of the workers who helped build "The Great Pyramid of Kufu At Giza".
The man in the video also demonstrated how the large stones were rolled up the ramps used to build, "The Great Pyramid" using only these devices, large ropes, and a handful of workers for each block. I thought this might be interesting for you.
Date: Dec-23
Possible E-Mail to Jean Pierre' Houdin.
Dear Sir,
My name is Kurt, and I live in the United States. I saw your Documentary, "Unlocking The Great Pyramid", and I would like to propose if I may, that the stones that were used in the construction of, "The Great Pyramid" on Giza Plateau were rolled into position. Not Dragged.
I think The Ancient Egyptians did this by using eight or more separate quarter-moon shaped, 90 degree circle wood fittings that were mounted one on each side of a massive stone, and again on both ends. It would've been like putting a square peg in a round hole. It probably would've also had a wooden dowel running the length of the stone connecting the two slats one on each side of the stone horizontally.
This would allow the stones to be rolled up the incline, and not have to be dragged into position as previously suggested. I think this would explain why continuing up the inside of the enclosed structure of, "The Great Pyramid" every two, or three minutes a stone could be fitted into place on the inner, and outer walls of the pyramid.
On the other hand, I think dragging the stones would've required way too long of a line for workers pulling the stones in a straight line up the incline shaft making it an impractical construction method. I would also like to say, "I think the small niche on the corner of, "The Great Pyramid" structure that was discussed in the last part of your Documentary may have been small, seemingly uneventful, and puzzling at first because it was used only for safely turning the large blocks sideways. Not for a machine to reposition the stones".
I think that rolling the stones into place would've required far less labor for the workers making shorter lines in the inline ramp enclosure. I also would like to say that, "I think for this reason it may have been why, "The Grand Gallery" might have been necessary for raising the 50 ton granite stone columns that were used in the construction of the ceiling in, "The King's Burial Chamber". I also imagine that rolling the stones on these devices would've greatly reduced the amount of friction on the ropes, and pulleys in the process you've described using "The Grand Gallery Inclosure" for moving these huge blocks.
It also may have been feasible to use workers to roll the granite stones up the south-side ramp, but the line of workers pulling, and rolling the stones into place would probably have fallen of the north side of the pyramid trying to roll the massive stone blocks in place using the south-side ramp.
I think another reason the architects of, "The Great Pyramid At Giza" may have used, "The Grand Gallery" for lifting is because the 12-50 ton stones that were used to build the ceiling in, "The Kings Burial Chamber" were far too long to fit sideways up an internal ramp on a quarter-moon wooden slat that was displayed in a DVD on how the pyramids were built in a documentary for building the great pyramids that I checked out at my local library. It was a documentary meant for high school students grades 9 thru 12.
If this catches your eye, the name of the documentary is, "Building The Great Pyramid" narrated by Omar Sherif. You can find this DVD on Amazon.com. That is, if you haven't seen it already. Although if you haven't seen it, and you would like to, the person who showed this device in the DVD said that it was, "found in one of the ancient burial tombs of one of the workers who helped build "The Great Pyramid of Khufu At Giza".
The man in the video also demonstrated how the large stones were rolled up the ramps used to build, "The Great Pyramid" using only these devices, large ropes, and a handful of workers for each block. I thought this might be interesting for you.
As far as outer casing goes, I think they would've started at the bottom of the pyramid lining the outside row of stone blocks with the white casing stones completely around the pyramid. Then working their way up with the construction of the pyramid all the way to the top they would've then sheered the stones off from top to bottom. No machines necessary.
I think, "The Sled" that was found from that period might have been for the cap stone.
The video demonstrates how if guided right, the ropes that were used to rotate the stones into place wouldn't have bound together stopping the stones from rolling.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003262069605&sk=wall
Jean-Pierre Houdin's Response:
Hi Kurt,
Sorry for the delay answering but I was travelling (by the way, I'm right now in New York and will be back to Paris on Monday).
That said, thank you for writing.
About the way the blocks were transported from the quarries to the building site...we have plenty of documents (carvings, and drawings) from the era which shows blocks being carried on sledges and you can see a 10t carrying capacity sledge at the Cairo Museum.
You could not imagine how these sledges were usefull and were really the ancestors of our main logistic system: the pallets !
And in fact, the construction of a pyramid was more a program management and logistic problem than a "magic device" one. Egyptians were absolutely amazing...
I know very well the idea of block being rolled with "a wheel" made of 4 or 8 parts tied together around this block...That has nothing to do with Ancient Egypt. And the construction of a pyramid is not linked to one "magic device"...It is the result of many processes adapted to each tasks. And the biggest problem which kills instantly this idea is that you don't have 2 blocks the same size...they are all different !!!! so your wheel doesn't fit at all.
If you can trust me (and my 12 full years studying the pyramid construction enigma), you will forget quickly the "wheel"...
Now, the "Unlocking the Great Pyramid" documentary was filmed in 2008, as well as 2 other documentaries, one for a french TV (links below) and one for NHK Japan and many things were updated since, thanks to the discovery of the room behind the notch by Dr Bob Brier. (you will see the sledge at the Cairo Museum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpR7AKKN87E&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4t4qHOeilo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wwohIUxals&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5j058avZg&feature=related
The french documentary shows that we had, with my partner Dassault Systèmes, made some simulation about the room discovered by Bob (which are not in the NatGeo doc), but ends just short of new updates.
You have to think that at half the height of any pyramid, you have 85% of the volume already set in place, but you still have the second half to built for only 15%. Up to half the height, the external ramp is the process and, for the remaing, the internal ramp takes on the relay . For the upper levels, blocks are much smaller and don't require lots of haulers (16 at the most). Cherry on the cake: after the dismantling of the external ramp, its materials are recycled to build the upper part, being hauled through the internal ramp. No other theory permits that which can be summarized in 2 words : NO WASTE...
Now, about the notches:
I always thought that if Egyptians were building "from the inside", they should had respected this idea from bottom to top.
But I'd no clues about the ability by Egyptians to deal with a corbelled tunnel making a 90° turn inside a stone mass.
Corbelling is easy for straight galleries, but not well suited for a 90° turn...
Bob Brier's discovery of the room was a "flash light" in my brain !
To avoid the 90° difficulty, I understood that Egyptian had a smart solution: insert a "room" inside the mass in which a first gallery (the landing one) will enter in the plane side (gable) and the second one (the leaving gallery) will start from the lower part of a wall continuing higher with a corbelling. That's it !
So from the simulation (and my imagination), I updated this part of the theory (shape of the internal ramp and notches), finding what is a more efficient solution, simplier and more logical:
- the internal ramp is now a 2 levels one, with the lower level for the hauling of the sledges and the upper one for the return of the haulers. Thus, there is no more need for an external gangway
(we have clues of a 2 levels gallerie in the Meïdum Pyramid built long before Khufu's pyramid)
- Notches are no longer usefull as everything is done inside a room which is cut in 2 level, with a wooden floor, during the construction of the pyramid.
At the end of the construction, the wooden floor in each room is dismantled and a reinforcement with stone blocks is made, cutting forever this room in 2 parts; Bob Brier went in the lower part of one of these rooms.
Strangely, the lower room is roughly "vault roofed" with a keystone like block on top (see picture), a proof that Ancient Egyptians had some knowledge about some other kind of roofing than the corbelling. There was no reason to find a room at around 10 meters inside the original edge of the pyramid...Absolutely not an accident of construction, but an intention from the architects and engineers of Khufu's era...
The big result : The facing is totally done while the pyramid rises. End of the story...
So, about my theory, you will find that lots of things were updated and new others were revealed on January 27-2011.
The inside architecture of the Great Pyramid is more complex than what is already known. I presume that there are 2 more rooms (2 antechambers) in addition to the 2 rooms already known in the center part of the pyramid. More, there is another room below the rafters above the descending corridor. This one was part of a set of 2 rooms linking the true entrance to the Queen's Chamber and Kufu's funeral apartments (KC + 2 antechambers).
I join below many links which will be usefull for you to be updated on my work
If you have a recent PC with a very good graphic and video card, all the details are in 3D real time animation, with guided tour or free visit.
The website is right now in french and english, but 10 other languages will be available in a few weeks, among these...japanese...and chinese
www.3ds.com/khufu (you will also find a Pdf file about the clues)
You just have to follow the Guided tour done by Shemsu Sesen on Em Hotep! :
http://emhotep.net/2011/07/14/locations/lower-egypt/giza-plateau-lower-egypt/khufu-reborn-interactive-the-guided-tour/
On this same blog
http://emhotep.net/
you will find many articles on the main frame and on the right side
Featured Series : Khufu Project is about what I call Episode 1, so about what you saw in the documentary.
Exclusive: Marc Chartier is about Khufu Reborn, the updated theory and the new revelation from January.
If you are looking for contemporary examples of building "Inside-out", look at this short video filmed by my wife in Cairo...
http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x14r38_mchartier_pyramidales#videoId=xam65x
And about the "pyramids" made of bales of rice straw...at the Société Nationale du Papier at Aboukir near Alexandria.
I join a text written in 1944 and published in the JEA...Very informative...I discovered this text in February 2008.
You have some lecture and links...Don't hesitate to ask for more
I wish you an Happy New Year 2012
Cheers
Jean-Pierre Premier de la classe émoticône
From: Celeste and Kurt
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:37 PM
To: jphoudin@construire-la-grande-pyramide.fr
Subject: Rolling Stones Into Place, by Kurt Burnum USA 12/19/11
Dear Sir,
My name is Kurt Burnum, and I live in the United States. I saw your Documentary, "Unlocking The Great Pyramid", and I would like to propose if I may, that the stones that were used in the construction of, "The Great Pyramid" on Giza Plateau were rolled into position. Not Dragged.
I think The Ancient Egyptians did this by using eight or more separate quarter-moon shaped, 90 degree circle wood fittings that were mounted on each side of a massive stone, and again on both ends. Sort of like putting a square peg in a round hole. This would allow the stones to roll up the incline, and not have to be dragged into position as previously suggested. I think this would explain why continuing up the inside of the enclosed structure of, "The Great Pyramid" every two, or three minutes a stone could be fitted into place on the inner, and outer walls of the pyramid.
On the other hand, I think dragging the stones would've required way too long of a line for workers pulling the stones in a straight line up the incline shaft making it an impractical construction method. I would also like to say, "I think the small niche on the corner of, "The Great Pyramid" structure that was discussed in the last part of your Documentary may have been small, seemingly uneventful, and puzzling at first because it was used only for safely turning the large blocks sideways. Not for a machine to reposition the stones".
I think that rolling the stones into place would've required far less labor for the workers making shorter lines in the inline ramp enclosure. I also would like to say that, "I think for this reason it may have been why, "The Grand Gallery" might have been necessary for raising the 50 ton granite stone columns that were used in the construction of the ceiling in, "The King's Burial Chamber". I also imagine that rolling the stones on these devices would've greatly reduced the amount of friction on the ropes, and pulleys in the process you've described using "The Grand Gallery Inclosure" for moving these huge blocks.
It also may have been feasible to use workers to roll the granite stones up the ramp, but the line of workers pulling, and rolling the stones into place would probably have fallen of the north side of the pyramid trying to roll the massive stone blocks in place using the south-side ramp.
I think another reason the architects of, "The Great Pyramid At Giza" may have used, "The Grand Gallery" for lifting is because the 12-50 ton stones that were used to build the ceiling in, "The Kings Burial Chamber" were far too long to fit sideways up an internal ramp on a quarter-moon wooden slat that was displayed in a DVD on how the pyramids were built in a documentary for building the great pyramids that I checked out at my local library. It was a documentary meant for high school students grades 9 thru 12.
If this catches your eye, I would gladly find out the name of the author, and title of the DVD that it was described in so you can see it for yourself. That is, if you haven't seen it already. Although if you haven't seen it, and you would like to, the person who showed this device in the DVD said that it was, "found in one of the ancient burial tombs of one of the workers who helped build "The Great Pyramid of Kufu At Giza".
The man in the video also demonstrated how the large stones were rolled up the ramps used to build, "The Great Pyramid" using only these devices, large ropes, and a handful of workers for each block. I thought this might be interesting for you.